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	<title>Comments for Phenomena</title>
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	<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com</link>
	<description>A science salon hosted by National Geographic Magazine</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 07:43:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Male Frog Extracts and Fertilises Eggs From Dead Female by Malcolm</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/02/26/male-frog-extracts-and-fertilises-eggs-from-dead-female/#comment-49062</link>
		<dc:creator>Malcolm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 07:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=152684#comment-49062</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I cant see any benefit for this species, because these females would have only one chance of passing on their genes, whereas females of other species could lay multiple batch of eggs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cant see any benefit for this species, because these females would have only one chance of passing on their genes, whereas females of other species could lay multiple batch of eggs.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I&#8217;ve got your missing links right here (18 May 2013) by Nancy</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/18/ive-got-your-missing-links-right-here-18-may-2013/#comment-49036</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 01:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=155889#comment-49036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you Commander Hadfield!

You are not simply an engineer, a test pilot, an astronaut and a wonderful family man, but then you go over the top and show us that you are a humanitarian, an educator of young and old, a PR man extraordinaire for space programs, a songwriter and a singer.  Is there anything you can&#039;t do??  Thank you for helping bring us together as fellow citizens of this blue planet that we all share.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Commander Hadfield!</p>
<p>You are not simply an engineer, a test pilot, an astronaut and a wonderful family man, but then you go over the top and show us that you are a humanitarian, an educator of young and old, a PR man extraordinaire for space programs, a songwriter and a singer.  Is there anything you can&#8217;t do??  Thank you for helping bring us together as fellow citizens of this blue planet that we all share.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mediocre Poison Eaters And The Imperfection of Evolution by erbarker</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/17/mediocre-poison-eaters-and-the-imperfection-of-evolution/#comment-49014</link>
		<dc:creator>erbarker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 19:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=155870#comment-49014</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[These kinds of post are very informative for laypeople like myself, keep&#039;em coming.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These kinds of post are very informative for laypeople like myself, keep&#8217;em coming.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mediocre Poison Eaters And The Imperfection of Evolution by Jim Gilardi</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/17/mediocre-poison-eaters-and-the-imperfection-of-evolution/#comment-48998</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Gilardi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 13:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=155870#comment-48998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t believe the author stated that PCP was toxic because it wasn&#039;t natural.  He stated that because it wasn&#039;t natural no microbes had evolved enzymes to break it down (because PCP wasn&#039;t around until the 1930s).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t believe the author stated that PCP was toxic because it wasn&#8217;t natural.  He stated that because it wasn&#8217;t natural no microbes had evolved enzymes to break it down (because PCP wasn&#8217;t around until the 1930s).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mediocre Poison Eaters And The Imperfection of Evolution by pwndecaf</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/17/mediocre-poison-eaters-and-the-imperfection-of-evolution/#comment-48994</link>
		<dc:creator>pwndecaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 12:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=155870#comment-48994</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think you misread.  I saw no comment that it was toxic because it wasn&#039;t &quot;natural.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you misread.  I saw no comment that it was toxic because it wasn&#8217;t &#8220;natural.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mediocre Poison Eaters And The Imperfection of Evolution by Kudzu</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/17/mediocre-poison-eaters-and-the-imperfection-of-evolution/#comment-48974</link>
		<dc:creator>Kudzu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 07:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=155870#comment-48974</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would vehemently disagree with your assertion that PCP is toxic because it isn&#039;t natural. That&#039;s one of the most absurd assertions in chemistry and fosters a belief in &#039;natural = good&#039;

Every day new chemicals are produced by nature. Often just variations on theme (It is highly unlikely that two starch molecules will be exactly alike, each is its own distinct compound in most cases.) but also due tot he complex interactions of enzymes and environment.

PCP is toxic for two reasons. Firstly it is not susceptible to the many breakdown pathways it is exposed to; pathways that usually deal with whole classes of compounds, not individual chemicals they were especially evolved to handle. The liver is a remarkable detoxifying organ for example.

The second reason is it IS susceptible to either damaging cellular machinery or blocking metabolic pathways. The equally artificial hexchlorobenzene is much less toxic not by being more natural, but by lacking the reactive hydroxy group. Hexaflurobenzene is nearly harmless.

&lt;strong&gt;[CZ: Either I didn&#039;t express myself clearly enough, or you misunderstood my point. The fact that PCP is unnatural is not what makes it toxic. It&#039;s part of the reason why PCP doesn&#039;t get broken down in the environment. Let me quote from a 2009 review by Copley: &quot;The persistence of anthropogenic compounds is due to their recent introduction into the environment; microbes in soil and water have had relatively little time to evolve efficient mechanisms for degradation of these novel compounds.&quot; The whole review is free &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2867350/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would vehemently disagree with your assertion that PCP is toxic because it isn&#8217;t natural. That&#8217;s one of the most absurd assertions in chemistry and fosters a belief in &#8216;natural = good&#8217;</p>
<p>Every day new chemicals are produced by nature. Often just variations on theme (It is highly unlikely that two starch molecules will be exactly alike, each is its own distinct compound in most cases.) but also due tot he complex interactions of enzymes and environment.</p>
<p>PCP is toxic for two reasons. Firstly it is not susceptible to the many breakdown pathways it is exposed to; pathways that usually deal with whole classes of compounds, not individual chemicals they were especially evolved to handle. The liver is a remarkable detoxifying organ for example.</p>
<p>The second reason is it IS susceptible to either damaging cellular machinery or blocking metabolic pathways. The equally artificial hexchlorobenzene is much less toxic not by being more natural, but by lacking the reactive hydroxy group. Hexaflurobenzene is nearly harmless.</p>
<p><strong>[CZ: Either I didn't express myself clearly enough, or you misunderstood my point. The fact that PCP is unnatural is not what makes it toxic. It's part of the reason why PCP doesn't get broken down in the environment. Let me quote from a 2009 review by Copley: "The persistence of anthropogenic compounds is due to their recent introduction into the environment; microbes in soil and water have had relatively little time to evolve efficient mechanisms for degradation of these novel compounds." The whole review is free <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2867350/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.]</strong></p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Does Music Feel So Good? by Glenn Dixon</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/04/11/why-does-music-feel-so-good/#comment-48957</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 01:22:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=154656#comment-48957</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a rapidly growing and fascinating field.  http://www.tripping-the-world.com/evolutionary_psychology.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a rapidly growing and fascinating field.  <a href="http://www.tripping-the-world.com/evolutionary_psychology.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.tripping-the-world.com/evolutionary_psychology.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Tracing Breast Cancer&#8217;s History by Graham Coop</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/14/tracing-breast-cancers-history/#comment-48949</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Coop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 00:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=155691#comment-48949</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PS my interest in this, apart from my general interest in human popgen, is that I use BCRA1 as an example of mutation-selection balance for my undergraduate class. So I want to make sure I understand the details here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS my interest in this, apart from my general interest in human popgen, is that I use BCRA1 as an example of mutation-selection balance for my undergraduate class. So I want to make sure I understand the details here.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Charlemagne&#8217;s DNA and Our Universal Royalty by Robert Grumbine</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/07/charlemagnes-dna-and-our-universal-royalty/#comment-48948</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Grumbine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 00:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=155449#comment-48948</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Graham:
The Huff link, unfortunately, was to a paper not available in full text.  Fortunately, it did lead me to Bickeboeller and Thomas, &quot;The Probility Distribution of the Amount of an Individual&#039;s Genome Surviving to the following Generation&quot;, 1996, which seems to cover much of the same ground and with somewhat easier (for me) mathematics.  So, thanks, some pleasant vacation reading.

@Clint
I understand your skepticism since I shared it on first hearing the results.  One portion of my learning to accept that it&#039;s not unreasonable comes from my fooling around in my own genealogy.  Nothing special to me of course.  Consider a small town in which the parent generation is 128 (which means they&#039;ve got some still-living parents, and they&#039;ve got some descendents, so town has a population of a few hundred).

Now consider that we arrange to have the most disparate possible set of descendents -- person number 1 appears _only_ as the parent of people who are also descended from person #2, and so forth.  In generation 2, the children of people 1 and 2 only mate with descendents of people 3 and 4 (if they don&#039;t, then people 1 and 2 appear on even _more_ different lineages and the collapse to universal ancestry by someone is even faster).  In the first descendent generation, we have 64 different ancestries (parents being 1,2 or 3,4, or 5,6, up to 127, 128).  In the second descendent generation, there are only 32 possible ancestries.  In generation 7, _everybody_ is descendent of _everybody_ in the original population.  At 30 years per generation, this is only 210 years.  Since I&#039;m starting to advance in to &#039;tough old bastard&#039;-hood, this is slightly prior to the US Revolution, but still nowhere near Charlemagne (ca. 760, 40 generations).  And, I remind you, this is the _longest_ span that this initial small town could avoid there being one person who was ancestral to everybody.

Exponentials (true exponentials, not casual speech &#039;exponential&#039;, which only means really fast) are hard to deal with intuitively.  In 7 generations, any small town that remained isolated would all be related to each other.  (This has some relevance to my wife&#039;s family tree.  Some to mine as well -- there&#039;s an example where 3 brothers married 3 sisters, so the 3 resultant families only have 4 grandparents instead of the 12 you might have expected.)

The exponential growth of ancestors mean that after 14 generations, call it 1600, you&#039;d need a city of population well over 16,000 (2^14)to avoid everybody being related to everybody today.  In 1600, a city of population 16,000 was not small.

After 21 generations, say 1390, the smallest city/country, with the most divergent possible mating practices, that could avoid someone being ancestral to everybody is 2^21, or over 2 million.  At that time in history, there are no cities this large, and quite a few countries are smaller.

At 28 generations, still far short of Charlemagne (very great grandpa Chuck), say 1180, you have to have a population of over 256 million, and optimal divergent mating, in order to avoid there being somebody who was ancestral to everybody.  World population _might_ have been rather larger than this, though not tremendously.

Go back to 35 generations, call it 970 AD, &#039;Dark Ages&#039; Europe, and the population (interbreeding with each other) required to avoid a common ancestry is another 128 times as large -- 32 _Billion_ -- far larger (about 100 times) than the population of that time, and even far larger than today&#039;s.

The only way to get a date of common ancestry as _large_ as 3400 years (over 100 generations) is if you do indeed have populations relatively isolated from each other for much of that time.  The flip side of that is that the sub-populations (Europe, East Asia, the Americas, Africa, ...) are even more strongly interrelated.

Fascinating stuff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Graham:<br />
The Huff link, unfortunately, was to a paper not available in full text.  Fortunately, it did lead me to Bickeboeller and Thomas, &#8220;The Probility Distribution of the Amount of an Individual&#8217;s Genome Surviving to the following Generation&#8221;, 1996, which seems to cover much of the same ground and with somewhat easier (for me) mathematics.  So, thanks, some pleasant vacation reading.</p>
<p>@Clint<br />
I understand your skepticism since I shared it on first hearing the results.  One portion of my learning to accept that it&#8217;s not unreasonable comes from my fooling around in my own genealogy.  Nothing special to me of course.  Consider a small town in which the parent generation is 128 (which means they&#8217;ve got some still-living parents, and they&#8217;ve got some descendents, so town has a population of a few hundred).</p>
<p>Now consider that we arrange to have the most disparate possible set of descendents &#8212; person number 1 appears _only_ as the parent of people who are also descended from person #2, and so forth.  In generation 2, the children of people 1 and 2 only mate with descendents of people 3 and 4 (if they don&#8217;t, then people 1 and 2 appear on even _more_ different lineages and the collapse to universal ancestry by someone is even faster).  In the first descendent generation, we have 64 different ancestries (parents being 1,2 or 3,4, or 5,6, up to 127, 128).  In the second descendent generation, there are only 32 possible ancestries.  In generation 7, _everybody_ is descendent of _everybody_ in the original population.  At 30 years per generation, this is only 210 years.  Since I&#8217;m starting to advance in to &#8216;tough old bastard&#8217;-hood, this is slightly prior to the US Revolution, but still nowhere near Charlemagne (ca. 760, 40 generations).  And, I remind you, this is the _longest_ span that this initial small town could avoid there being one person who was ancestral to everybody.</p>
<p>Exponentials (true exponentials, not casual speech &#8216;exponential&#8217;, which only means really fast) are hard to deal with intuitively.  In 7 generations, any small town that remained isolated would all be related to each other.  (This has some relevance to my wife&#8217;s family tree.  Some to mine as well &#8212; there&#8217;s an example where 3 brothers married 3 sisters, so the 3 resultant families only have 4 grandparents instead of the 12 you might have expected.)</p>
<p>The exponential growth of ancestors mean that after 14 generations, call it 1600, you&#8217;d need a city of population well over 16,000 (2^14)to avoid everybody being related to everybody today.  In 1600, a city of population 16,000 was not small.</p>
<p>After 21 generations, say 1390, the smallest city/country, with the most divergent possible mating practices, that could avoid someone being ancestral to everybody is 2^21, or over 2 million.  At that time in history, there are no cities this large, and quite a few countries are smaller.</p>
<p>At 28 generations, still far short of Charlemagne (very great grandpa Chuck), say 1180, you have to have a population of over 256 million, and optimal divergent mating, in order to avoid there being somebody who was ancestral to everybody.  World population _might_ have been rather larger than this, though not tremendously.</p>
<p>Go back to 35 generations, call it 970 AD, &#8216;Dark Ages&#8217; Europe, and the population (interbreeding with each other) required to avoid a common ancestry is another 128 times as large &#8212; 32 _Billion_ &#8212; far larger (about 100 times) than the population of that time, and even far larger than today&#8217;s.</p>
<p>The only way to get a date of common ancestry as _large_ as 3400 years (over 100 generations) is if you do indeed have populations relatively isolated from each other for much of that time.  The flip side of that is that the sub-populations (Europe, East Asia, the Americas, Africa, &#8230;) are even more strongly interrelated.</p>
<p>Fascinating stuff.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Gaboon Viper Has Ultra-Black Scales So You Can’t See It by 4u1e</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/16/the-gaboon-viper-has-ultra-black-scales-so-you-cant-see-it/#comment-48943</link>
		<dc:creator>4u1e</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 22:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=155844#comment-48943</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Is that how “stealth” works on stealth fighters, bombers and ships, reflecting radar waves diffusely like light on the Gaboon viper?&quot;

Broadly speaking, yes. At the macro scale, some designs (F117) reflect electromagnetic waves diffusely in all directions, trying to avoid a strong reflection in any one direction. While also trying to absorb a considerable amount of energy within the structure. More recent designs tend to align all reflective surfaces, so you only get reflections in certain directions, and again use techniques rather like this viper&#039;s scales to absorb as much energy as possible to make those reflections very weak.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Is that how “stealth” works on stealth fighters, bombers and ships, reflecting radar waves diffusely like light on the Gaboon viper?&#8221;</p>
<p>Broadly speaking, yes. At the macro scale, some designs (F117) reflect electromagnetic waves diffusely in all directions, trying to avoid a strong reflection in any one direction. While also trying to absorb a considerable amount of energy within the structure. More recent designs tend to align all reflective surfaces, so you only get reflections in certain directions, and again use techniques rather like this viper&#8217;s scales to absorb as much energy as possible to make those reflections very weak.</p>
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