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	<title>Comments on: Listen Closely To The Bats and You Can Hear the Viral Chatter</title>
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	<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/03/20/listen-closely-to-the-bats-and-you-can-hear-the-viral-chatter/</link>
	<description>A science salon hosted by National Geographic Magazine</description>
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		<title>By: Jim Hart</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/03/20/listen-closely-to-the-bats-and-you-can-hear-the-viral-chatter/#comment-48516</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 May 2013 16:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=153740#comment-48516</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read with interest the posting on coronaviruses and links to bats.  As a mammalogist and bat biologist, I have to somewhat agree with the comments made.  But also as a person who has done quite a bit of field work, I have a problem with the way the general public approaches wildlife in general.  They constantly look at wildlife as being cute and cuddely without understanding that the diseases in wildlife can be quite harsh (read deadly) to humans and have generally arisen in an evolutionarily ecological manner that may confuse the public.  You cannot treat wildlife as you would the family cat or dog since we have vets to vaccinate our domestic animals and take care to keep them healthy.  Wildlife is a reservoir for countless diseases that are trying to maintain &quot;their way of life&quot; and continue to evolve.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read with interest the posting on coronaviruses and links to bats.  As a mammalogist and bat biologist, I have to somewhat agree with the comments made.  But also as a person who has done quite a bit of field work, I have a problem with the way the general public approaches wildlife in general.  They constantly look at wildlife as being cute and cuddely without understanding that the diseases in wildlife can be quite harsh (read deadly) to humans and have generally arisen in an evolutionarily ecological manner that may confuse the public.  You cannot treat wildlife as you would the family cat or dog since we have vets to vaccinate our domestic animals and take care to keep them healthy.  Wildlife is a reservoir for countless diseases that are trying to maintain &#8220;their way of life&#8221; and continue to evolve.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/03/20/listen-closely-to-the-bats-and-you-can-hear-the-viral-chatter/#comment-46927</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Apr 2013 15:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=153740#comment-46927</guid>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/03/20/listen-closely-to-the-bats-and-you-can-hear-the-viral-chatter/#comment-44533</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Mar 2013 02:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=153740#comment-44533</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I heard the last man who died of this disease was at the camel race...  can flies transmit these viruses? That would maybe explain how three people in England got the virus from their cousin who visited in Saudi Arabia.. as far as I remember he visited a farm before returning to the UK... he might have brought some fleas in his luggage and if it is possible to get infected from the flea bites that would be one explanation... as for bats- I live in Middle East and there are bats flying around and above my head frequently- this is scary.. when I walk with my dog.. the dog can easily eat something from the floor... like bat poop ( a fruit or something) .. when you think of it it is pretty scary]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard the last man who died of this disease was at the camel race&#8230;  can flies transmit these viruses? That would maybe explain how three people in England got the virus from their cousin who visited in Saudi Arabia.. as far as I remember he visited a farm before returning to the UK&#8230; he might have brought some fleas in his luggage and if it is possible to get infected from the flea bites that would be one explanation&#8230; as for bats- I live in Middle East and there are bats flying around and above my head frequently- this is scary.. when I walk with my dog.. the dog can easily eat something from the floor&#8230; like bat poop ( a fruit or something) .. when you think of it it is pretty scary</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/03/20/listen-closely-to-the-bats-and-you-can-hear-the-viral-chatter/#comment-43994</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Mar 2013 20:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=153740#comment-43994</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Carl, I&#039;ve loved your work in the past on topics as varied as tattoos to parasites. I even follow you on Tumblr, but I find issue with some of your statements in this article.

People treat bats like they are all the same when in reality there are over a thousand varieties. They are the second most diverse group of mammals after rodents and make up 20% of all mammals and with at least 50 million years of divergence among them represent a diversity that is done a disservice when they are treated as a single entity for convenience. With so many species, many of which are communal which increases disease transmission, it is not really surprising that they can be reservoirs for zoonotic diseases. I would hate for people to get the impression that bats are creatures to be feared or killed rather than respected as important parts of the ecosystem.

Furthermore, I disagree with calling SARS a &quot;massive pandemic&quot; when it infected less people that influenza kills each year in the United States. Let us not forget that in 2003, the anthrax attacks and World Trade Center were still fresh in our collective consciousness and I think the media coverage of SARS played into those fears. Similarly sensational outbreaks seem to happen almost seasonally with H1N1 (swine flu) and H5N1 (bird flu) which could sweep the globe in the modern age. Of course this makes them worth studying, but I would urge against any alarmism when discussing emerging diseases.

The high fatality rate among those diagnosed with HCoV-EMC may be an artifact of missed diagnoses (ie how many family care physicians would know of an emerging virus?) or a latent infection. Without dismissing the likelihood of a bat species as a reservoir, I would propose a different method of transition. Perhaps similarly to West Nile Virus, which manifests symptoms in less than 20% of infections but is severe in those effected, there may be a vector involved as bat species, like all animals, are not immune to parasites like mosquitoes. 

And I don&#039;t think there are many fruit bats in Europe, though I know there are some in the Middle East.

&lt;strong&gt;[CZ: I&#039;m not picking on bats; I&#039;m describing a consensus among scientists who study emerging viruses. Just consider the title of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1879625712001861&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this new paper&lt;/a&gt;, &quot;Bats and their virome: an important source of emerging viruses capable of infecting humans.&quot; Also, see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/pandemics/2012/12/origins_of_new_diseases_zoonotic_pandemics_come_from_bats_birds_monkeys.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this piece&lt;/a&gt; in Slate by microbiologist Tara Smith on bats. As for HCoV-EMC, there&#039;s no evidence that it&#039;s spread by a mosquito or another vector--I know of no coronavirus that&#039;s spread by a vector. As for SARS, I don&#039;t consider &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.who.int/csr/sars/country/table2004_04_21/en/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;8090 infections and 774 deaths&lt;/a&gt; something to dismiss--especially given that this was an entirely new disease.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl, I&#8217;ve loved your work in the past on topics as varied as tattoos to parasites. I even follow you on Tumblr, but I find issue with some of your statements in this article.</p>
<p>People treat bats like they are all the same when in reality there are over a thousand varieties. They are the second most diverse group of mammals after rodents and make up 20% of all mammals and with at least 50 million years of divergence among them represent a diversity that is done a disservice when they are treated as a single entity for convenience. With so many species, many of which are communal which increases disease transmission, it is not really surprising that they can be reservoirs for zoonotic diseases. I would hate for people to get the impression that bats are creatures to be feared or killed rather than respected as important parts of the ecosystem.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I disagree with calling SARS a &#8220;massive pandemic&#8221; when it infected less people that influenza kills each year in the United States. Let us not forget that in 2003, the anthrax attacks and World Trade Center were still fresh in our collective consciousness and I think the media coverage of SARS played into those fears. Similarly sensational outbreaks seem to happen almost seasonally with H1N1 (swine flu) and H5N1 (bird flu) which could sweep the globe in the modern age. Of course this makes them worth studying, but I would urge against any alarmism when discussing emerging diseases.</p>
<p>The high fatality rate among those diagnosed with HCoV-EMC may be an artifact of missed diagnoses (ie how many family care physicians would know of an emerging virus?) or a latent infection. Without dismissing the likelihood of a bat species as a reservoir, I would propose a different method of transition. Perhaps similarly to West Nile Virus, which manifests symptoms in less than 20% of infections but is severe in those effected, there may be a vector involved as bat species, like all animals, are not immune to parasites like mosquitoes. </p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t think there are many fruit bats in Europe, though I know there are some in the Middle East.</p>
<p><strong>[CZ: I'm not picking on bats; I'm describing a consensus among scientists who study emerging viruses. Just consider the title of <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1879625712001861" rel="nofollow">this new paper</a>, "Bats and their virome: an important source of emerging viruses capable of infecting humans." Also, see <a href="http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/pandemics/2012/12/origins_of_new_diseases_zoonotic_pandemics_come_from_bats_birds_monkeys.html" rel="nofollow">this piece</a> in Slate by microbiologist Tara Smith on bats. As for HCoV-EMC, there's no evidence that it's spread by a mosquito or another vector--I know of no coronavirus that's spread by a vector. As for SARS, I don't consider <a href="http://www.who.int/csr/sars/country/table2004_04_21/en/index.html" rel="nofollow">8090 infections and 774 deaths</a> something to dismiss--especially given that this was an entirely new disease.]</strong></p>
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		<title>By: June</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/03/20/listen-closely-to-the-bats-and-you-can-hear-the-viral-chatter/#comment-43874</link>
		<dc:creator>June</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2013 11:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=153740#comment-43874</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To implicate bats without the proper evidences is wrong. Bats are necessary for a healthy ecosystem; this may prompt some more reasons for people to cull them.

&lt;strong&gt;[CZ: It is possible for bats to be a source of human pathogens and to be important to ecosystems. And, in fact, that&#039;s what all the evidence scientists have suggests. The fact that HCoV-EMC is most closely related to bat coronaviruses is compelling evidence of its sources, although the hypothesis needs to be tested by looking at more animals in the Near East. Which is what scientists are doing right now. As for culling, that would be the wrong response to this situation. Better to leave the bats undisturbed in their ecosystems, reducing contact with farm animals.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To implicate bats without the proper evidences is wrong. Bats are necessary for a healthy ecosystem; this may prompt some more reasons for people to cull them.</p>
<p><strong>[CZ: It is possible for bats to be a source of human pathogens and to be important to ecosystems. And, in fact, that's what all the evidence scientists have suggests. The fact that HCoV-EMC is most closely related to bat coronaviruses is compelling evidence of its sources, although the hypothesis needs to be tested by looking at more animals in the Near East. Which is what scientists are doing right now. As for culling, that would be the wrong response to this situation. Better to leave the bats undisturbed in their ecosystems, reducing contact with farm animals.]</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Spencer</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/03/20/listen-closely-to-the-bats-and-you-can-hear-the-viral-chatter/#comment-43838</link>
		<dc:creator>Spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2013 00:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=153740#comment-43838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Civet coffee is an interesting curiosity, but not necessary to explain viral transmission. If the virus can be transmitted through coffee beans (rather unlikely in my opinion), then bats gnawing on coffee cherries would be enough to infect humans. Civets just add some journalistic color to an otherwise implausible transmission pathway.

&lt;strong&gt;[CZ: If you&#039;ll notice, I explained that an expert on SARS mentioned this scenario to me. So I fail to see how you can consider this &quot;journalistic color.&quot; The reason Frieman mentioned the coffee cherries is that human SARS was directly transmitted to us from civets, and that the civets got it from bats. This is the pattern reflected in the viruses themselves. While this particular scenario may not necessarily be what actually happened, the two species must have had some sort of interaction.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Civet coffee is an interesting curiosity, but not necessary to explain viral transmission. If the virus can be transmitted through coffee beans (rather unlikely in my opinion), then bats gnawing on coffee cherries would be enough to infect humans. Civets just add some journalistic color to an otherwise implausible transmission pathway.</p>
<p><strong>[CZ: If you'll notice, I explained that an expert on SARS mentioned this scenario to me. So I fail to see how you can consider this "journalistic color." The reason Frieman mentioned the coffee cherries is that human SARS was directly transmitted to us from civets, and that the civets got it from bats. This is the pattern reflected in the viruses themselves. While this particular scenario may not necessarily be what actually happened, the two species must have had some sort of interaction.]</strong></p>
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		<title>By: George Myers</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/03/20/listen-closely-to-the-bats-and-you-can-hear-the-viral-chatter/#comment-43764</link>
		<dc:creator>George Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2013 14:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=153740#comment-43764</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just read large spiders catch bats on every continent except Antarctica. Could a spider bite pass on the virus via saliva after eating a bat?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read large spiders catch bats on every continent except Antarctica. Could a spider bite pass on the virus via saliva after eating a bat?</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/03/20/listen-closely-to-the-bats-and-you-can-hear-the-viral-chatter/#comment-43758</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2013 13:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=153740#comment-43758</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Never mind my last comment - I wasn&#039;t thinking about the bat to civet link.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never mind my last comment &#8211; I wasn&#8217;t thinking about the bat to civet link.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/03/20/listen-closely-to-the-bats-and-you-can-hear-the-viral-chatter/#comment-43757</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2013 13:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=153740#comment-43757</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wouldn&#039;t the roasting process kill most bacteria?
&lt;strong&gt;
[CZ: It&#039;s a virus, not bacteria. And the transmission in this scenario would be from bats to civets before the coffee is collected.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t the roasting process kill most bacteria?<br />
<strong><br />
[CZ: It's a virus, not bacteria. And the transmission in this scenario would be from bats to civets before the coffee is collected.]</strong></p>
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		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/03/20/listen-closely-to-the-bats-and-you-can-hear-the-viral-chatter/#comment-43716</link>
		<dc:creator>David B. Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2013 04:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/?p=153740#comment-43716</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yuck!

Fortunately my coffee beans do not travel the civet route.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yuck!</p>
<p>Fortunately my coffee beans do not travel the civet route.</p>
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